The Narrow Road to the Deep North is a savagely beautiful five-part series charting the life of Dorrigo Evans (played by Jacob Elordi as a young man, with Ciarán Hinds as the older Dorrigo), through his passionate love affair with Amy Mulvaney (Odessa Young), his time held captive in a prisoner-of-war camp, and his later years spent as a revered surgeon and reluctant war hero.
The Narrow Road to the Deep North is an intimate character study of a complex man, a compelling portrayal of the courage and cruelty of war, and an unforgettable love story that sustains one through the darkest of times.
The series is available in full on BBC iPlayer from 6am Sunday 20 July, and airs on BBC One from 9.15pm the same day.
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Jacob Elordi (Dorrigo Evans)
Who is Dorrigo Evans?
Dorrigo is a Lieutenant Colonel and a medical officer in the Australian Army. He takes us on this dreamlike journey from the camps on the Burma Railway back to Melbourne, moving through time from the past to the present. He’s quiet and stoic and somebody who is entirely driven by love – especially the purity of absolute love, which he has a strained version of with his wife Ella and feels deeply in his affair with Amy.
What drew you to the show?
I got a message from Justin Kurzel [the director and executive producer] in my inbox and immediately thought, “I’ll do whatever this is”. I don’t think we even had scripts at that point, it was just, “Do you want to work on this?” You hear actors say this all the time – and I hate that I’m about to say it myself – but when I read Richard Flanagan’s book, I realised that no one else in the world could play it.
I had to play Dorrigo, because he has a kind of inner dialogue that Richard writes so well, and every time I read something about the inner workings of his life, I thought, “That’s how I feel. That’s that thing that I can never say, that’s that thing that I can never touch on”. I remember taking it around to my family saying, “If you want to understand me, read this book” – which was a profound experience to have.
How did you prepare for the role?
Justin and I met in Melbourne about a year before filming, and by that point I’d already read some of the work of Bashō – the Japanese poet who’s referenced heavily throughout the piece – and all of Richard’s work. So, I hit the ground running, and it was clear straight away that we weren’t interested in making something that felt false, because the subject matter is real people’s lives. We’re one generation away from men that suffered through these kinds of atrocities, and human beings are still fighting and killing each other. It was important that it wasn’t just explosions, screaming and clenched jaws. It needed to be real.
Did you have any profound moments during filming?
The whole process of making the show was profound, because Justin gives you freedom as a performer. When you get to the set, the cameras are basically just rolling – so you have to know all your scenes, you have to know what you’re doing and you have to be willing to throw it away, because he doesn’t yell “Cut”. It was like a physical and mental transformation to the point where there wasn’t a clear line between myself and Dorrigo.
How was the camaraderie on set?
We had this incredible group of extras called the Bravo Team, who were background performers who went through the weight loss with us and were there every single day. It felt like 100 young men who were placed in the middle of the jungle and forced to survive under extreme circumstances. It was nowhere close to the real thing, but it was as real as we could possibly make it. The main thing I learned from people’s accounts of that time was that the Australians never stopped smiling and laughing. They were always together and nothing was ever serious, which speaks a lot to the way that I grew up.
Tell us about Dorrigo’s relationship with Amy Mulvaney and the impact it has on his life.
It seems like that storybook idea of love at first sight, which I also think is a very real thing. Richard said something to me that just clicked – that the moment they look at each other stars explode. And when you work with Odessa Young that’s not a hard thing to convey. In Australia, the class system is really evident, and I think there’s an alien element to being in love outside of your class, so when he meets Amy, who is somebody from the same world as him, they have an automatic language. That’s something he has to force when he’s with Ella.
How was it working with Olivia DeJonge, who plays Ella?
It’s hard not to love Olivia DeJonge as well. When I worked with both actors it was clear from the moment that we stepped onto set that the dynamic was just there. It was a delight, in different ways, working with each of the girls. And I’ve known Olivia for a long time. We kind of came up together in LA and what she brought to the table took my breath away. It was so fun to spar with her. Ella and Dorrigo are constantly challenging each other. Theirs is a deep love but it has lost its spark or its energy.
Were there any nuances that you brought to Dorrigo?
When I first started, I wrote “He never gives a smile for free” on the front of my script. Throughout filming I was furrowing my brow the whole time and Justin kept trying to get me to smile. I violently disagreed with him because I thought Dorrigo would never smile in a death camp while these Japanese men are standing over him with samurai swords. It was such a learning curve, though, because I when watched the first episode, I saw him smile and I saw how necessary it was to make him a rounded human being.
Simon Baker plays Dorrigo’s uncle Keith. How was it working with him?
He’s a firecracker, he’s hilarious, and I’ve never seen him like that in anything before. There are so many men in Australia like him. They just talk, talk, talk, so they never have to face up to anything. It’s all, “Everything’s all right, nothing could be a problem, everything’s fine” as the world is falling around them. Keith is such an interesting character to watch in the show and I felt quite bad playing across from him, knowing that I’m lying to him, because he’s such a good bloke. But Simon is an incredible performer; you either have that charisma or you don’t.
Filming the prisoner of war scenes must have been intense?
For me that was the greatest part of the whole experience. It was like being in a massive theatre production that was constantly playing, and I’ll forever be indebted to those boys in the jungle that made it feel so real. There was no CGI or adding of bodies or anything like that. We had a limited crew, with very little hair and make-up touches. We carried a real tree up the side of a cliff for I don’t know how many hours.
All the labour was intense. I know it was nowhere even remotely close to the real thing, but when I see it, I still get chills. I can’t even fathom, from the research that I’ve done, the things that those boys went through in the camps. Some of them were 15, 16 or 17 years old and I can’t imagine what they endured.
Ciarán Hinds (Older Dorrigo Evans)
What appealed to you about the series and the role?
I got a call to say that Justin Kurzel was interested in using me in this story he was going to make. I had seen Nitram, which I adored; I thought it was fantastic. They sent me a couple of scripts, I read them, and they intrigued me. I thought this has obviously come from a source material, so I got hold of the book by Richard Flanagan. It’s more than 12 years old now and it was a formidable read. It was extraordinary. It was harrowing, heartbreaking, a kind of epic storytelling.
I loved the way it moved so fluidly between the timeframes, between the 1940s and the 1980s, backwards and forwards. The writing was brilliant, and then Shaun Grant, who has adapted it for the screen, did a fantastic job of keeping that base material moving between timeframes. I wasn’t quite sure why they were interested in me for the older Dorrigo, I must say. But I was delighted to speak with Justin on the phone and within 15 minutes I was on board.
How would you describe the Dorrigo Evans we meet in the 1980s?
It’s almost like he’s a shell of a man. He’s very strong, because he has had to be a leader of men at times in his life, especially in the 1940s. He had to be strong when he was the main doctor, surgeon and probably colonel in the death camps, when they were building the railway. He saw it as his mission to keep the men alive for as long as he could in these terrible, terrible conditions, no matter what. He had to take certain risks and be inventive with almost negligible medical material.
How would you describe his relationship with Amy Mulvaney?
Living on the edge for that time formed who he was, and at the same time that experience is balanced with an extraordinary love affair he had with Amy. It’s almost fantastical. It’s that thing… you can’t really define it, but it’s a spark. It’s kind of magical. And of course, it wouldn’t last if they had lived together. Whatever that was for those weeks, at those moments in his life, when he was in his mid-20s – everything that life could offer was there, the absolute horror and the absolute beauty of all things. He had them both. And since then, everything in his life fails to ignite him again. He loses that impetus to go on.
How does the memory of that love affect him?
It’s quite interesting, because he does go on but in a solitary way. What keeps him going is his work. He’s a surgeon, and without that work he’s probably nothing. Yes, he has his wife, Ella, who in a way he loves, but it’s a cold love, because there was this other thing in the way.
It’s a dutiful love and it’s a care. It’s not that he doesn’t love her at all, it’s just he can’t get through this other thing, which is like a haunting. It’s not even Amy who haunts him, it’s the memory of Amy, so in a way he’s banjaxed, as we’d say in Ireland. He doesn’t know which way to go, because these things keep coming at him all those years later.
What are some pivotal moments for the 1980s Dorrigo in the series?
Now in his 70s, there’s nothing much that stirs him. He drinks a bit. He has affairs. The affairs don’t mean anything to him. The only thing that he hangs onto is his work, the art of surgery, of saving life. In the storyline, a pivotal moment is when he’s hauled before the Medical Council because someone has made a complaint about a procedure he did. He removed a cancer that he discovered mid-operation.
Dorrigo has been down a road much deeper, darker and more dangerous than many of these people who live by the book. This is something that he believes he can resolve and so he does. But if he was to lose the case and be struck off, the only focus he has left in life would be gone. That risk was a pivotal moment for him in this story.
What was it like working with director Justin Kurzel and writer Shaun Grant?
The series is beautifully written and crafted by Shaun Grant. To adapt an epic book is a heck of a difficult thing to take on. There is a balance to what they do, in how he has structured it, and between him and Justin. When we worked on the scenes with Justin, it was thrilling.
It’s such a fantastic gift for actors to work with a man who’s always looking for something and suggesting things throughout the scene. It was good, louder and a bit faster. Justin throws out different avenues, streets, boulevards to walk in and see what might come out of it, and he gives us the time to do that.
Dorrigo’s wife is played by Heather Mitchell. How was it working with her?
It was just extraordinary. Apart from the fact that she’s gifted, she’s also able to turn on a sixpence. She can be light and funny and then deeply moving. The only other person I have worked with who is that quick is Judi Dench, who is mercurial, brilliant, committed and very present.
Odessa Young (Amy Mulvaney)
What appealed to you about the series and the role?
The story is incredibly beautiful and that’s the first and foremost reason for wanting to do something. I’d made a movie with Justin before and the way he works is phenomenal and highly conducive to the style of storytelling that appeals to me. He told me that he wanted to shoot the love story like Cassavetes and that was a shocking turn – in a good way. I was really excited about the idea of imbuing this very dark story about war and pain and grief and loss with this beautiful, messy, strange, dangerous and very emotional love story.
How did you feel when you first read the script?
My first reaction was really emotional, because the longing and sliding-doors moments were really affecting. You want these people to make certain decisions and to make sacrifices and concessions for each other, but you also know that the circumstances won’t allow them to do that. I think that’s the poignant thing about any times of war; that love stories are often lost to war. It could have been a long love for the rest of their lives, but they just didn’t get the opportunity.
Had you read the book beforehand?
I have now, but I hadn’t when I received the scripts. Since working on this, every Australian that I talk to is really excited about it. There’s such reverence in Australia for Richard Flanagan as being one of our most tender storytellers. I feel very honoured to be a part of bringing to life a book that a lot of people have an emotional investment in.
What is Amy’s story in the series?
Amy is this force of nature, which is incredibly challenging and rewarding to play. She has very little impulse control. I think that to many, especially at the time this is set in, she would appear to be quite grotesque. She doesn’t care much for social norms and in Dorrigo she finds this kindred person, this live wire. She finds permission to explore certain parts of herself. And I think that’s her MO – she’s an artist with no medium, then the medium ends up becoming this love story.
Why is she so important to Dorrigo?
I can only speculate, but I think it’s because he has seen himself living a certain kind of life and it may not be the life that he actually wants. I don’t necessarily think that if their relationship was allowed to continue it would be a be-all-and-end-all love story. However, I do believe that you have these relationships in your life that open you up and make you aware of future possibilities and how a life can be lived. Amy provides that solution for Dorrigo at a time when he really needs it.
Their love is all about timing. He has been told that he’s going to war and tries to find something to anchor himself. Amy is so used to changing all the time, and she hasn’t changed in a while. They both find each other at this moment that allows them to act on their impulses in a way that is incredibly freeing, just as they’re about to embark on lives that are not free. Those are the really important relationships to have, to pay attention to and to follow.
What are some pivotal moments for Amy in the series?
Basically, any scene where she is full of rage. Amy has a lot of rage. That is probably her fatal flaw and when she is most herself, showing her unbridled anger. When Dorrigo comes back to visit Keith and her at the pub and Amy gets upset that he’s not paying her much attention, she bottles up this feeling. She becomes incredibly passive-aggressive and tries to punish these people by making their day hellish. And then, finally, she gets a moment alone with Dorrigo and she gets to unleash. That moment felt incredibly intrinsic to the character, who is a sort of dangerous live wire that can so easily be tripped. I think that’s why people love her and probably why people stay away from her as well.
What does Jacob Elordi bring to the role of Dorrigo?
Not to sound clichéd, but Jacob has this very deep pool inside of him and he’s a mystery. Jacob’s a mystery and Dorrigo’s a mystery. Jacob has this weight to him that imbues every scene with a rich inner life that I find so fun to play against and to try and figure out. That was great for the dynamic between Amy and Dorrigo. She’s provocative and he’s mysterious, and they kind of play with each other in that way. He can switch into these different modes at the drop of a hat and suddenly Dorrigo has this incredibly childish, pure surface to him that is so surprising and beautiful and emotional. That was just so rewarding to work opposite.
And how was it working with Simon Baker, who plays Amy’s husband Keith?
Simon’s a delight and he’s so funny. Keith could have been an unlovable character; he could have been the enemy. But the way that Simon plays him makes him a larrikin and this delightful presence. It makes the love triangle all the more torturous because you actually see why Amy loves Keith, why they fell in love and why they work together. It makes her decisions so much more complex.
How would you describe Dorrigo as a character and how does the war impact him?
With the 1940s storyline, you see his origin story. You see how he becomes who he is in the later part of the series. I think that once you’ve experienced such levels of grief and loss, it sloughs off a part of you that’s preoccupied with the complicated aspects of life. Dorrigo becomes an uncomplicated person and eventually he understands that he could probably never be as happy as he’d like. He might never feel the same kind of love that he had felt previously. He becomes resigned to his circumstances, not in a bitter way but in a peaceful one.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t really help the people around him but, as a coping mechanism for the experiences that he’s been through, he needs to focus on the things that matter to him – which includes saving lives. Sometimes you have to trust the people in your life to save their own lives, so you can then focus on saving the lives of the people who need you. That’s what Dorrigo learns throughout the war and throughout his love story with Amy – that there’s always going to be pain, there’s always going to be sadness and there’s always going to be loss and grief. You can’t control that, so you might as well not even try and just do what you can.
Olivia DeJonge (Ella Evans)
What appealed to you about the series and the role of Ella?
I took on the role of Ella because my dad loved the book. He couldn’t stop talking about it when I brought this project up to him and my dad has very good taste. Then the team around it – Justin, Shaun, Jacob and Odessa – was amazing.
How did you respond to the scripts?
When I first read them, I was so attracted to the way that Shaun wrote each of these characters with such nuance and care, especially because there are so many different timelines. The way that he was able to weave integrity into all the scenes was really great and I hadn’t read something like that in such a long time.
What is Ella’s story in the series?
Ella maintains this beautiful dignity throughout, which I absolutely love and find quite inspiring – particularly in the face of infidelity and her very complicated and nuanced relationship dynamics with Dorrigo. She also has this unwavering belief in Dorrigo that, as we see, transcends decades.
How does Dorrigo’s relationship with Amy impact his relationship with Ella?
I believe that a woman’s intuition is never wrong, but also it was such a different time during that period. Life was difficult and it was different. There was a war going on and there was poverty. I think that Dorrigo and Ella were and are partners more than lovers, because their connection goes so much further than that.
What are some pivotal moments for Ella in the series?
A really big and pivotal moment for Ella is when she and Dorrigo get married. It’s something that she has been waiting for and longing for, and when that day comes it really signifies stability for her and a lifelong commitment through all of life’s ups and downs – and it’s a commitment which, as we see in the show, withstands pretty much everything.
What was it like filming the wedding scenes?
My goodness, the wedding scenes were just unreal! Thanks to Alice and everybody who worked on the costumes, I walked out and felt like a princess. Having that moment for those characters was important and quite emotional. Everybody on set got very emotional. There was a lot of crying, with not a dry eye in the house.
What was it like working with Justin Kurzel?
The way that Justin works is heaven. I had the best time on this job working with him. He has this way with actors, so when he looks at you and gives you direction it’s almost like you’re absorbing it because he’s so immediate in the way that he addresses you. It feels very intimate, and it’s been such a masterclass. I’ve been so impressed by the energy that he brings to the set and the way that he treats everybody. I’d work with him again 100 times over. Justin has a deep understanding of character, and he knows how to weave in his direction to get the best performance out of the actor. He gently nudges you in these beautiful and very personal ways.
And what was it like working with Jacob Elordi?
Jacob’s great. I’ve been so impressed working opposite him. He has a real stoicism in his gaze and what he brings to Dorrigo is a kind of irreverent grounded-ness.
How would you describe the character of Dorrigo Evans and how did the war impact him?
I think Dorrigo is a stoic as much as he is a poet, and he has a harshness to him as well as a way of seeing the world. This maybe makes him ill equipped for the monotony of everyday life, but it also makes him a pillar of strength during his time at the POW camp. He’s an incredible character, and those roles really don’t come by very often. Having got to play a part in this story, I feel very lucky.
Simon Baker (Keith Mulvaney)
What attracted you to the show?
First and foremost, I’d been very curious about working with Justin Kurzel for a while, and as regards the Richard Flanagan book I didn’t read it when it first came out, but I had heard about it, and I’ve read other books by him. When I did read it, I found The Narrow Road to the Deep North to have such an interesting story, and I like the way it is broken into three different time periods. I also thought it was interesting how the book and the series looks at that those time periods and how, outside of the prisoner of war camp and the atrocities that took place there, they explore the difficulties and the hardships of what was then contemporary life in Australia and the dynamics of the relationships.
Who is Keith in the story?
Jacob Elordi’s character, Dorrigo Evans, is the main protagonist and Keith is his uncle by marriage, so Dorrigo’s blood-related aunt was Keith’s ex-wife, who has passed away. And Keith is a publican. He owns a pub called the King of Cornwall, across the road from the beach in Adelaide, and he’s now married to Amy, who is played by Odessa Young. We played around with the idea of what I guess might be considered an unconventional relationship, in that there’s like a 25-year age difference between Keith and Amy. Then tall, cool Dorrigo saunters into town to visit Uncle Keith – and you know, he’s a good-looking kid so…
What did you enjoy about playing Keith?
He’s a character who is actually exhausting to play but fun, and I had a good time. It’s basically the most extroverted aspects of myself enhanced, with a quietening down of the introspective side – although there’s a little bit of introspection in there too. He’s such a full-on character that I went home from work every day and I was exhausted. He’s a very buoyant character, but underneath that buoyancy there’s a lot of doubt and insecurity. With most people who are loud and very forward in the way they approach the world, there’s often a bravado there, so that’s what’s nice about the character.
How does Amy and Dorrigo’s relationship impact on him?
Once Amy and Dorrigo have their affair, I think it sucks a lot of life and soul out of Keith. But we explore the idea that the flirtation between the two of them could be some form of excitement within their relationship. That’s the modern nature of the story, and we played around with those notions and those ideas. We didn’t shy away from that at all, so that was interesting.
How is it working with Justin Kurzel?
Justin is very detailed in the sense that he doesn’t miss anything. He takes everything in, and he has a sensitivity to him and a warmth that makes you feel comfortable. He also very artistically exploits that sensitivity at the right times to encourage and push and pull, so it’s a really pleasurable dance. He would identify stuff that he liked or different areas, and then we’d explore them, which meant there was a lot of freedom. What’s great about him as an artist is that he doesn’t direct with a blanket approach. I think he tailors his direction specifically to each actor and character, the individual and the whole as a story. He’s so tuned into observing and capturing that. Any kind of spark that he finds interesting he’ll explore, and it’s great because you feel at the end of a scene or the end of a day that you didn’t hold anything back – you examined the character properly. One of his strengths as a director is that he never sees anything as wrong, and that gives you freedom and it’s empowering. You don’t ever feel embarrassed about going too far or doing too little.
What are the pivotal moments for Keith in the story?
With the way the story is structured my character is interspersed throughout various episodes. Almost every scene has great purpose in the Keith/Amy/Dorrigo storyline, so there isn’t one specific scene – there’s a lot of different colours within that story. I had a great time shooting it and there’s a lot of scenes that I look back on fondly. One of the great pleasures of this job for me is that I really like that time period. It’s aesthetically very pleasing. The clothes, the colour palette, Alice Babbage’s production design and costumes are fantastic. With Odessa, with every outfit she put on I was like “Oh, that is a beautiful dress”. Everything was spot-on, and the style of Saul Chiplin’s cinematography works really well with how Justin directs.
Did you find anything challenging?
Amy and Keith have this dance sequence together, which on the page didn’t look like much, but a great part of this job was learning that bit of choreography with Odessa. I found it both exciting and challenging. Odessa is a lot younger than me and probably a lot more nimble, but it was fun. I mean, I like to dance generally but having to learn that particular style of jitterbug and swing dancing was great.
How was it working with Odessa and Jacob?
They’re both amazing. Odessa is fantastic. She’s very open and very relaxed, and we had a very quick and comfortable rapport. Jacob is a gentle, nice, curious guy. I like him a lot. I had such a good time on the show, and I felt a bit sad when I finished. I was happy to hang the character up because, as I say, it was exhausting, but I had a lovely time working with those guys.
Justin Kurzel (Director and Executive Producer)
What was your response to the novel when you first read it?
Richard Flanagan is a family friend and, after the rest of the family read it and said, “This is amazing”, I read it myself over a few sittings one summer. My grandfather was a Rat of Tobruk, so I had a deep connection with Australian veterans, and I found the book to be so poetic. The idea of framing the war experience around a love story was unique.
How did you come to bring it to the screen?
Richard asked me if I thought it could be made into a series. I hadn’t done any television at that point, but I took another look at the book, and I found the story – spanning Dorrigo’s lifetime, with this idea of him still being in love with a ghost or a memory – to be really powerful. It was a very personal thing because Richard and I are good mates, so it was about trying to work out whether I could see it as a TV show.
I was intimidated at first, but Richard said we should approach it from Dorrigo’s point of view and that freed us up. He also kept saying “It’s a love story, it’s not a war story’ and that became our mantra. Shaun [writer Shaun Grant] and I always approach things through the minutiae, and here it was through the nuance of Dorrigo’s love story – not only with Amy but also with these other men, how they bond and form relationships to survive in this pretty horrible place.
With the Amy storyline, Dorrigo’s memory of that becomes a kind of sanctuary for him in the darkness of war, a place that he continually revisits. That was such an original idea for a love story – that it could exist in memory, asking “Do you physically need the presence of a person for a relationship to become stronger and more meaningful?”
How did you approach showing the impact the war has on Dorrigo, particularly as an older man?
That fascinated me, because with my grandfather there were certain things that he wouldn’t talk about and there were things that he kept to himself. It was very hard for him to openly recount his experiences. There was a certain kind of DNA in the older Dorrigo that reminded me a lot of the inability a lot of these guys have to healthily deal with their experiences – especially such horrific experiences of being a prisoner of war. But there was a sort of a hope and a salvation in this story, in the way that Dorrigo is able to get through his pain and trauma by focusing on those memories of his six weeks with Amy. Even though there are many things that we’ve shifted, changed and amalgamated, at the heart of it is still the essence of what Richard was writing about.
Can you tell us about the visuals?
It was a real team effort between cinematographer Sam Chiplin, costume and production designer Alice Babidge and myself in coming up with a coherent look for the series whilst also trying to delineate the different time periods. You’ve got Dorrigo in his early 20s meeting Amy on the beaches of Adelaide and there’s a certain taste, smell, look and light to that.
With the prisoner of war camp, even though it was horrific there was an energy to those scenes too. We approached these opposing time periods in a similar way, using a lot of handheld shots. Then we had this other world, which is of Dorrigo later in life, sitting in very large open spaces that sort of feel like mausoleums, where the camera is very still. That part is quite classic, controlled and mannered, with a dignity to it, whereas those other time periods feel much more unruly, wild, spontaneous and visceral.
How did you approach casting an actor to play Dorrigo?
Sometimes you need a bit of luck where someone comes along, they really respond to the material, and they are also enjoying a great rise in their career and are looking for ambitious work as a serious artist. We found all that in Jacob. He loved the book, loved Richard’s writing and he responded a lot to some of the films that Shaun and I had done in the past, like Snowtown and Nitram. We met and he recognised the depth of the character and the world that he would need to inhabit.
He was really excited and interested in what the relationships with the other boys could be, as well as the challenge of losing quite a bit of weight for it so he could do Dorrigo justice. Then Ciarán Hinds came on board, and he’s one of my favourite actors and a wonderful partner to Jacob in playing the full stretch of Dorrigo’s life. There was something very engaging about those two playing this one character.
How was working with the young men who play the prisoners of war?
The most amazing thing about being a director is when you come across a group of actors at that point in their lives where they’re wanting to do something challenging and are really engaged. I knew that a huge part of the enjoyment of doing this would be getting to work with a bunch of young men who were going to be up for enduring a pretty hard time to get themselves into the right condition, yet who were also going to create genuine relationships with each other that you could feel on screen. They did a lot of prep, and spent a lot of time together, building that camaraderie.
Why do you think they agreed to put themselves through all of that?
It’s an amazing book and you’ve got a man like Richard Flanagan, who all the boys got to meet and who is engaging, charismatic and fiercely intelligent, with the biggest heart that I know. When you get someone like that, who is engaging with you as an actor, it’s pretty powerful and I think they realised it too – that they were doing something that was a marking of a point in time, where they recognised that this was a unique experience they might never have again.
Can you talk about working with the other key cast members?
I’d come into the office, see all their photos on the wall and think “Wow, this is quite an extraordinary cast and we’re very fortunate to have them”. Odessa Young is one of the most extraordinary young actresses. This is the first time I’ve really done a love story, but I was aware of how things can become trite very quickly and that you have to find a way of grounding it. Odessa and Jacob had to have an ease with each other, and she instantly grounded that relationship.
There’s not a lot of Ella in the book, but Olivia DeJonge created an understanding as to why the love story between her and Dorrigo was a valid one. Heather Mitchell is an amazing actress and I’ve been a huge fan of hers for so long. She brought so much empathy, not only to Ella but also to Dorrigo as well. The Japanese presence in the story is hugely important and we were fortunate to work with Shô Kasamatsu. It was vital to him and to us that the Japanese soldiers were truly three-dimensional and that you got to see the challenges and hardship that they also went through.
Shaun Grant (Writer and Executive Producer)
What was your initial response to Richard Flanagan’s book?
I read it for the first time many years ago and I thought it was one of the greatest Australian novels of all time. What’s most pleasing is having read it countless times in the process of making this show, I still think that. To me, it is Richard’s most seminal work, and I’m privileged to have adapted it into a television series.
What were the key themes that drew you to the story?
It’s about the two most dramatic things that you can ever write about, namely love and loss. The book also taught me about my grandfather, who I never really knew. He worked on the Thai Burma railway and was a prisoner of war for two years. Richard’s father also served at the same time, worked on the line and inspired him to write the novel, but while Richard’s father spoke about it a lot, my grandfather was very insular and closed-off. Through reading the book, I felt like I got to know him for the first time in my life, long after he passed. I was daunted about adapting it but I had to do it.
What were the key challenges of bringing it to the screen?
It’s a huge book, so I couldn’t do an absolutely faithful, direct adaptation of it. It’s all about picking and choosing what to keep and what to adapt. And Richard was great. He was hands-off and trusted Justin and me to do the best interpretation we possibly could. Funnily enough, one of our producers, Jo Porter, had approached me years before to adapt it but I turned her down, not because I didn’t think the book was extraordinary but I because I was overwhelmed by the scope of it. Two years passed before Jo asked Justin if he would do it. He is a friend of Richard’s, and he said yes. Then when Jo asked Justin who he would want to write it, his answer was me. It was a different conversation, because a lot of change had happened in the TV industry – where you were seeing things of scope and size and where you thought it was possible that you could make something cinematic for the small screen.
This is your fourth project with director Justin Kurzel, what is your collaborative process?
What our professional relationship is built on and has been built on over the past 15 years, is a mutual trust. We both come from working class backgrounds but we’re different in lots of ways, which I think is a good thing creatively because it means there’s a push and pull of thoughts and ideas. He’s involved in everything during the development process, and he directs everything too, but I’m there through casting, I’m on set every day and I spend days with him in the editing room.
Can you tell us a little more about why you were daunted by this project?
I didn’t want to mess it up, because I owed it to my grandfather, I owed it to Richard’s father, I owed it to Richard himself and to the hundreds of thousands of men that were on that line. It was really challenging, but I always find if I’m scared of a project then it’s usually a good thing. The challenge here was that we were dealing with the heaviest of situations, scenes and subject matter, but that also was what made it so great. There were days on set when terrible things are happening within the scene, but you’re also watching the most extraordinary performances happening in front of your eyes. You hug it out afterwards and tears are shed. It was stressful but it was worth it because what those young boys, led by Jacob Elordi, brought to the screen was extraordinary.
Can you tell us a bit about the cast you assembled?
We’re so blessed with the cast. We got to work with actors in their 20s who were on their first or second show through to Ciarán Hinds, Heather Mitchell and people who have been doing it for a very long time. Jacob was the first actor we cast and I was so excited that he said yes. When Justin and I reached out, we were flattered to learn that when he was at drama school, he idolised Snowtown and longed to work with us. He loved the book too, and he was excited to come home to Australia, because he hadn’t done anything here for a very long time. His star is ascending and so it should be, because he’s fantastic.
Odessa Young and Olivia DeJonge have such warmth and radiance. Simon Baker as Keith was a left-field choice. In the book Keith is a much harsher character with few redeeming qualities, but Justin and I decided very early on that we wanted him to be someone you believed Amy could be in love with. Simon’s so charming and this is unlike anything he’s done before. Our casting agent Nikki Barrett was the one who first suggested Ciarán Hinds for the older Dorrigo and I’ve loved his work forever. There’s a grace, a dignity and a sophistication that Ciarán brings to all his roles that was just perfect for this. Heather Mitchell is also someone I’ve admired from afar. It was so great to work with her, as it was with all the young boys, who gave their all.
How would you describe Dorrigo as a character?
He’s a man of his time. He’s an incredible man and an incredibly flawed man, which is what drew me to wanting to adapt the book because they’re the characters I’m interested in. I find this series to be a very current one at a time where as a society we’re looking at statues on memorials and questioning who they were and what they did. My grandfather was an incredibly flawed man, but I knew he had been a prisoner, and you wonder about the effect something like that must have on you. In my work I’m not interested in judging people but in trying to understand who they are and why they make the decisions they make. And that’s Dorrigo. He doesn’t make perfect decisions all the time and he’s considered a hero and a saint in Australia, yet he’s just a man like all of us, doing the best he can to get through life.
And how would you describe his relationship with Amy?
Hopefully we’ve all felt it, but there’s a love that you may only feel once in your life, yet it reverberates all the way through it. What’s interesting with Dorrigo is that it’s a relationship that both sustains and destroys him. It sustains him through the camp, yet after that he’s haunted by this ghost and this memory of something that he can never get back. When we were pitching this project I talked about it as a love story, but we always look at love as a good thing, whereas love can also be cruel, sad and brutal, especially if you’ve lost it.