“I wanted a Superman who could be beaten,” Superman writer/director and DC Studios co-CEO James Gunn told Rolling Stone before the release of his film. David Corenswet’s Kal-El does take more than his share of punches in the film, but he turns it around in the end — and the movie itself is flying to its own triumphs at the box office. “Those weekday numbers have been incredible,” Gunn says.
Just after a press tour that took him around the world, Gunn joined Rolling Stone by Zoom for a follow-up to his recent Rolling Stone Interview. It was a spoilers-and-all conversation that digs into the film’s plot twists, the future of the DCU, and more. (Again, spoilers ahead: If you haven’t seen Superman yet, click away.)
So the point of the movie, in some ways, is Superman’s “maybe that’s the real punk rock” line.
Yeah! I do think that’s the point of the movie.
And I was thinking that in casting David, one of the main things you needed was someone who could get a line like that across.
Yeah.
Tell me about writing that scene, which of course also takes place with the Justice Gang battling the “dimensional imp” in the background.
I liked the idea of doing something where we showed the magic of this world being treated as ordinary. And in some ways it’s not dissimilar from the beginning of Guardians 2, where we’re focused on baby Groot dancing when there’s this whole other thing going on behind him — but done with romance instead of poppy fun in that respect. It didn’t change very much in the writing of it. It came out pretty clearly. The punk-rock thing was in the very first draft. I don’t remember if I thought of that line before I wrote the scene or not. I’m going to guess that, yeah, I probably did, but I can’t remember for sure. I will also give a shout-out to John Murphy’s score in the scene, which is incredibly helpful for setting the tone.
By the way, would you want people to think that the imp might be the comic book character Mr. Mxyzptlk, who fits that description?
Oh, no. He’s just a stupid basic imp. He’s nowhere near as powerful as Mr. Mxyzptlk.
And then of course the punk-rock line ties in with a song I’ve been hearing a lot now on TikTok, the Teddybears’ “Punkrocker,” featuring Iggy Pop. How did that come into the picture for the ending?
It just came up on my Spotify through my algorithm. I didn’t know the song. And it just stuck with me. It’s funny because one of my director friends, who I showed the movie to in an earlier cut for notes, was Jason Reitman. And Jason is like, “Oh, that’s one of my favorite songs in the world. I’ve always wanted to use that in a movie.” And so when I wrote that line, I think I thought back to that song and knew that would really work well. And I just liked how the ending juggled all these different pieces of the movie in a way where we showed that the real punk rock was him, his dad, all the way to the shot of the dad making the baby fly. I’m getting touched now, just bringing it up. He flies because of his parents.
And then you have the mention of this fictional pop-punk band the Mighty Crabjoys, which spawns the poster in Clark’s childhood room and the song that you co-wrote for the end credits. How does a thing like that evolve?
When I was writing the scene of her looking around in his room, it was initially more just about the childhood of it all. The moment for me in that scene that’s the most potent is actually not the poster. It’s her seeing his parents being so sweet to him. And for me, that’s a moment in which I think we see Lois understands who he is and maybe even falls in love with him.
Yeah, that’s definitely how Rachel Brosnahan plays it.
I think there’s still a part of it that is still part of her that’s skeptical about who he is and his intentions, and when she sees that, she understands why he is the deep, loving soul that he is, and it’s all completely honest.
When I was first writing it, I was like, “What would he have in there?” I said, “I guess he would have a Mighty Crabjoys poster.” So I put that up, and then in the script it said she stops and looks at it and smiles. But the song at the end was completely not planned. At one point I said to [DC Studios co-CEO] Peter [Safran], maybe we should just do a Mighty Crabjoys song, and I talked to my friend Eric Nally, who’s the lead singer of Foxy Shazam, and I said, “Do you want to write the song with me?” And I literally wrote that song and sang it into my phone the first thing in the morning. It took five minutes and I sang it, and then Eric turned it into the fun song that it is. But on my phone there is a recording of me singing the Mighty Crabjoys, and trying to also sing the background vocals at the same time, because they were funny to me. On the poster one of the Mighty Crabjoys is my godson Mason, because he was visiting on that day and I’m like, “Hey, you want to be in this photograph?” And then also on the poster is Lou Lou Safran, who is Peter’s daughter, who also sings for real. She’s actually a musician.
I think people want to be reassured that there’s a good explanation for why Supergirl didn’t tell Superman about his parents. Since she’s presumably more knowledgeable about Krypton.
You’re assuming that everybody on Krypton is the same! And how would she know? She’s younger than him, so she wouldn’t know. She wouldn’t know anything about his parents.
Fair enough. Did you ever think about a bigger role for her in this film? Or was it always as we see it in the final cut?
Yeah, it was always that. When I took this job, Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow [the graphic novel that inspired 2026’s Supergirl] was, like, number one for me of the things I knew I wanted to do. Ana Nogueira just killed the script right away, and saw what I saw in how the comic could be adapted to film, where [Supergirl is] even rougher in the film than she is in the comic, I think.
And obviously Krypto is her companion in that graphic novel, even though he’s still Superman’s dog in the comic book. I presume that’s where you got the idea to make Krypto Supergirl’s dog?
Oh yeah, that’s right. That’s how that came about. Yeah.
You went as far as to want to explain the glasses. Did you feel people needed to understand why there are both dogs and humanoids on Krypton?
No, because I talked to a scientist one time and he said if there are higher life forms on other planets, there’s a good chance that they adapted somewhat similar to us — that if there are aliens from other planets, they’re probably pretty similar to us. And if that’s true, then it’s probably also true that there could be other kinds of animals that are similar to us. The way the genetics worked was they developed similarly. I don’t know about Beppo the Super-Monkey or Comet the Super-Horse [laughs], but we’ll see.
I guess Comet was actually a magic transformation of an Earth creature.
That’s right. Comet was a centaur that was turned into a horse. Beppo, though, was actually from Krypton.
Yes.
The cat, Streaky, was not. Streaky the Super-Cat.
How important is the mural we see in the Hall of Justice with a bunch of old superheroes on it? Is it just a fun Easter egg or was there a lot of thought about what was put in there and the characters in there?
Oh, there was a ton of thought put into it. A ton of thought.
Should people assume that we will be seeing those specific characters?
Not necessarily specifically see all of them, but yes, some of them we already have in the works in different things in different ways.
Have you decided whether we’ll see Ultraman again or not?
Maybe.
To shift to Peacemaker Season Two for a second, the trailer suggests a multiverse plot, which has made some fans assume you’re going to directly address his shift from the prior DC film universe, the DCEU, to the current one, the DCU. But that seems to go against what you previously said, which is it will be a much more natural flow.
That’s true. Yes. People are realizing that Peacemaker Season Two is about two dimensions, and that’s really the core of the show. But it’s not as if one of these is old DCEU and one’s DCU. That’s dealt with in a different way, very upfront in a season where most everything in Season One is canon and some things are not. And in fact, I did a podcast with [actors] Steve Agee and Jen Holland. And we did every episode of Peacemaker, and in those episodes, I talk about what’s canon and what’s not. I basically chip off little things from Peacemaker Season One that aren’t canon, like Aquaman. But most of the stuff is canon.
Did the original idea for the Jor-El and Lara twist come from your reading of the John Byrne comic run where Krypton was cold and sterile, and Clark embraced Earth over Krypton?
Yeah. Listen, I read that when it came out. I definitely had that in my head. And isn’t it also a little bit in Birthright, too? So I did have the comic background excuse to do it.
Even among people who love the movie, there are some who also have enough of a lingering affection for Krypton and the idea of a benign Jor-El and Lara that they’re hoping that will somehow get retconned or revealed as a double-secret trick or something.
They’re shit out of luck!
The problem is, fundamentally, that would undo the entire emotional arc of the movie, right?
That’s right. That’s the whole point of the movie, that Superman thinks he is doing something because it is his destiny and his Kryptonian parents have set him out to do this thing, and along the way he discovers through the love of the people who are actually his parents that he’s doing these things not because of someone else, but because of himself. It’s like taking accountability in the deepest way possible that his morality is not based on some figure outside of himself, but on his own choices. I think it’s really beautiful in that way, and I’m not gonna change that.
And I don’t really even think of Jor-El and Lara as being totally evil. They just have this mindset that humans are less than what they are. We’re sea turtles to them. They’re just trying to keep the Kryptonian genes alive.
People are calling the movie “hopecore.” And it did remind me of what George Lucas set out to do with the original Star Wars — he wanted to make something positive in the world for kids. And it does feel like you came into this with the same kind of idea.
One thousand percent. Like, I had a dinner with the cast the night before we started shooting, and that’s exactly what I said. That’s what’s driven me with this movie the whole time, is making something about kindness. It is about kindness and goodness more than hope to me. It’s about being loved more than about hope. Hope is something outside of ourselves. We have this belief that maybe something will change in our lives. It almost denigrates the present moment, hope. And it’s not about that. It’s about being loving, being kind, and how that compassion is really the answer to everything. That’s a basic human need.
I felt like the squirrel-rescuing moment was actually really key to the film.
Yeah, although it was probably the second- or third-most hotly debated moment in the movie. Because we showed it to test audiences and some people did not like the squirrel. They’re like, “Why the fuck is he saving a squirrel? Why is he taking time out, saving a squirrel?” There was a cut where I cut it out and I’m like, “I really miss the squirrel. He’s gotta save the squirrel.” In addition, there were also some geographic problems with where he ended up if I didn’t have him fly over with the squirrel. So I put the squirrel back in despite the protestations of some of my people on my crew.
I was surprised that some people thought the movie was too fast-paced. And I wonder if it’s because people have gotten too used to the rhythms of television and to movies cut to the rhythms of television. So I’m curious what you were thinking as far as pacing and energy with this movie.
When you test movies, almost always, especially in the early test screenings, one of the main questions they ask is, “Is it too slow? Is it too fast? Is it just right?” And my movies have always had an overabundance of “too fast” compared to “too slow.” Because I’m not indulgent. I just don’t give a shit about my little precious moments that are so important to me in making a movie. I want to create something that’s as streamlined as possible, and if that means I go too fast, sometimes I do. And so it really is about pulling back.
I felt like the movie was meant to replicate the experience of picking up an issue of a comic book — and not the first issue.
We’ve created this world, and in that world, we’re picking out a certain place and a certain time. But in the DCU, we can pick out any place in any time. I wanted it to be like a comic book. I wanted it to be like what I experienced as a kid opening up a comic book, and there’s his friends and they’re experiencing all this stuff. Which is something I honestly pretty much ran away from in the Guardians movies. I didn’t want it to be like a comic. I ran away from comic-book-y stuff.
And the movie that you’re writing now is, what — a semi-, not-exactly sequel to Superman? Can you clarify?
[Laughs.] I mean, it follows Superman. What am I gonna say? I don’t know what to say.
That’s the quote on this subject? That’s what you’re going with?
Yeah!
But when you see the reaction to this movie, does it inevitably shape what you do next? Or is that something you have to fight, letting the reaction shape it, if you see what I’m saying.
I do totally see what you’re saying. Yes. I think people like Superman because it’s unexpected in certain respects, and I think that what we do next is gonna be unexpected. I just follow that. Listen, do I notice that people love Mr. Terrific and they love Krypto? Yes. I notice those things.
People who’ve read the Woman of Tomorrow graphic novel might have reason to be concerned about Krypto in Supergirl. You cut a scene where Ultraman punches Krypto because it upset audiences. If he can’t be punched in this movie, how do you have a scarier thing happen to him in a Supergirl movie?
Remember, this is a different movie than Supergirl. Supergirl is a way more rock & roll film. It’s a little bit rougher, in certain ways. She’s a tougher character. She’s not Superman at all. And so it’s not the same. This movie really is for everybody. And so is Supergirl, but it’s a little bit edgier in some ways than this film. Mind you,I’ve seen all the dailies, but I haven’t seen the cut. I see it next week, I think. So I’m very excited about that.
The tone of this movie is very much a Superman where the 31th-century team the Legion of Super-Heroes could exist. What are your thoughts about that for the DCU?
I’ve thought about it. I’m not a time-travel person. I like science fiction, but time travel’s a rough one for me. I am not into that. I’m not really into teleportation [either]. I have weird things that just aren’t for me. Now, you can say that the pocket universe is teleportation, but I don’t think of it as that. I think of it as traveling from one point in dimensional space to another as opposed to teleporting, which I think of as the person dying and being recreated.
There seems to be a thing where superhero movies, including Superman, maybe are not connecting the same way in international markets that they are domestically. Is there anything to be done about that? Is it just a fact of life now? How do you see that?
We’re definitely performing better domestically than we are internationally, but internationally is also rising and having really good weekday numbers in the same way we are. So obviously the word of mouth is very positive both here and everywhere else. Which is the thing that we needed to do the most. At the same time, there are certain countries in which it’s really performing well. Brazil and the U.K.
Superman is not a known commodity in some places. He is not a big known superhero in some places like Batman is. That affects things. And it also affects things that we have a certain amount of anti-American sentiment around the world right now. It isn’t really helping us. So I think it’s just a matter of letting something grow. But again, for us, everything’s been a total win. Having the movie come out and be something that has been embraced by people everywhere — this is just the seed of the tree that Peter and I have been watering for the past three years. So to be able to have it start off so positively has been incredibly overwhelming.
In the U.S., it does seem like you’ve reached beyond the typical superhero audience, to just normal people who just heard there’s a good Superman movie, which is the kind of thing you need to do.
Yeah. Kids, older people. I heard about somebody who went with a bunch of 80-year-old people the other day, and they were all applauding at points in the movie. That’s really cool.They were all fans of the original Superman movie. Some of them were too old for the original Superman movie.
I can tell you there was applause at my theater in New York last night when I saw it again.
I’ve heard that all the time. That makes me so happy. Yeah, dude.
Applause on a Wednesday night. That’s what it’s all about.
That’s gonna be the name of my biography.
There was a report that you are “fast-tracking a Wonder Woman movie.”
I don’t know what they mean by fast-tracking. [Laughs.] I’ve always had Wonder Woman as a priority. But we got the first few things started, and there’s some other things that are really close to green-lighting — like there’s a television show that I hope that we’re gonna be green-lighting in the next few days. So now a little time has passed, and we really need Wonder Woman and we really need Batman, because they’re so important to us. And so it’s become a little bit more like going to everybody at DC and being like, we need to figure this out. We have good writers on Wonder Woman and we just have to make sure it’s working and they have to not be somebody who’s gonna take two years to write a script.
I’ll let you go, but I’m looking forward to that prestige Bat-Mite TV show that you’re green- lighting in a couple days.
Yeah, the HBO Bat-Mite show. $150 million an episode.
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